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Carbon vs Cocoa

 
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Mac Carbon  
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Carbon vs Cocoa Reply with quote

Red Sweater: ADC Documentation Bomb

"100% Cocoa: Excellent!
0% Carbon: Get used to disappointment. Move to Cocoa."
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Jean Jacques



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick Schaut, Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit guy in one of his blog
entries
: "That Carbon plays second fiddle to Cocoa's first chair in the
orchestra is a serious misconception."

His blog should be interesting read to any Mac developer or even just
to a long time user: "On my resume, my primary objective said that I
was interested in writing applications software for three operating
systems: Unix, Windows and OS/2. Microsoft hired me to work on Word 5.0
for the Macintosh, and I've been writing Macintosh software ever since."


Buggin' My Life Away: Musings of a Mad Mac Maven
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Julius
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Carbon is the codename of Apple Computer's API for the Macintosh
operating system, which permits a good degree of backward compatibility
between source code written to run on the classic Mac OS, and the newer
Mac OS X. The APIs are published and accessed in the form of C header
files and a dynamically linkable library. The implementation of the APIs is
different in the two systems, but this difference is shielded from the
executable. This permits code that conforms to the Carbon APIs to run
unchanged and natively on both operating systems."



OS X Code: Articles: Carbon API
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Jean Jacques



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Cocoa Vs. Carbon? Reply with quote

Mac DevCenter.Com: Cocoa Vs. Carbon?, by James Duncan Davidson,
a photographer, author, and software developer living in Portland,
Oregon. He is the co-author of O'Reilly's Running Mac OS X Tiger and a
contributor to Mac OS X Hacks, among others.

"And yes, as odd as it may sound, the BSD layer can be considered a
framework because it gives access to all of the Unix underpinnings of the
OS as well as tools such as grep and diff. But the distinction of how the
other two APIs -- Carbon and Cocoa -- fit together has been confusing to
many."
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comp.sys.mac.programmer.help: Cocoa vs Carbon

"I have a small active X control I would like to port to OS X for Firefox and
Safari (and using universal binaries I hope). All the code is currently C++.
I've bought a MacBook and several books on the various technologies,
however these books are of course specific to their technologies and rarely
draw any comparisons.  What are the advantages of Cocoa vs Carbon?"
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Ike
Kapetan


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3025
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoS: What tools did Apple use to make iTunes?

"Interesting that even Apple maintains Carbon versions of its major applications
rather than rewriting them in Cocoa--my guess is that porting iTunes to
Cocoa would be a huge undertaking."
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Ike
Kapetan


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3025
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apple Mailing Lists: Re: tutorials on Carbon required

"Carbon does not have limited functionality. I think it would be fair to say
that Carbon "contains" some out-dated technology. However, the parts
that are out-of-date have modern replacements so there is no missing
functionality. The out-dated technology is there to support older applications
that may not have been updated to use the new functionality.

The difference between Carbon and Cocoa is really a question of technique.
Carbon relies on C APIs so C and C++ applications can adapt to it with
minimal effort. The C API also makes it an excellent framework for
interacting with other languages (e.g. Squeak, Fortran, things like that).
The most difficult part of working with Carbon is sorting out the "new"
techniques from the out- dated ones and discovering the techniques, traps,
and pitfalls that most experienced carbon developers avoid by instinct."
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lists.apple.com: Carbon and WWDC'07

"I understand, from reading a lot of development docs and from the threads
in this list, that it is probably a good idea to learn some cocoa. But as much
as I'd like to stop and learn obj-C and the Cocoa framework right now, I
could not afford to take time away from working on my app - an independent
development effort to which I already dedicate whatever time I can afford.
So I am wondering if during the sessions, particularly the hand-on and lab
ones, the demonstrations contemplate would Carbon API's with C or C++?"


...

"There are certainly new procedural APIs with no ObjC equivalent being
introduced in Leopard as well, and (although the Cocoa developers hate
to admit it), it won't kill a Cocoa developer to use a procedural API in their
app."
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unsanity: Cocoa vs Carbon

"Cocoa is not better than Carbon; its just different. Do not assume Cocoa
applications are better than Carbon. ... Look at Finder (...) - it is a PowerPlant
C++ application. Compare it to SNAX. Which is faster? When it comes down
to tables drawing speed, Finder wins hands down. So don't think Finder would
be all that faster and better if it was Cocoa. It wouldn't."
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Ike
Kapetan


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3025
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Sweater: The Cocoa-Carbon Advantage

"Cocoa is better than Carbon. And Carbon is better than Cocoa."
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carbon vs cocoa vs everything else: What do Mac Programmers Prefer?

"For serious software development, the overwhelming choice is a combination
of Carbon and Cocoa using C and/or C++ and Objective-C. The mix varies by
product and developer. It's difficult to write anything substantial without using
Carbon (which means some procedural code) but for the things that Cocoa does
provide, it's a big help."
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XNote
Kapetan


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 532

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apple Carbon List: Is Carbon Viable?

So, why all the fuss?

Laurence Harris:

- Some people really need 64-bit support...
- Vicious cycles being what they are, this will give the powers that be at
Apple even more reason to cut resources for Carbon ...
- ... new features Cocoa applications can incorporate but Carbon applications can't.
- ... it represents a complete reversal of what Apple promised at WWDC 2006 ...
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The macosxhints Forums - Is carbon the low level API for Cocoa?

"The reason I go to this kind of library is that I have already coded a
framework under Linux and Win32 and just want it to be ported under
MacOS-X without rewritting anything."
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delovski



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 3522
Location: Zagreb

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theList: Carbon iPhone Programming, Jim Billmeyer

"To allow the C modules to call Objective-C functions we defined a static
pointer to the Obj-C object in the .m source module and implemented C
functions in the same .m file that used the static object pointer to call the
corresponding Obj-C method that we wished to expose.

A separate header was created that only had the C function protocols and
this was included into the C modules that needed to interact with the Obj-C
layer."
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Ike
Kapetan


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3025
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ycombinator - Thoughts on Cocoa

"I would have much the same sour grapes attitude of many in this thread,
except for one point: Apple cannot even keep code examples working. Most
of the code samples on Apple's dev site don't even compile a year or two after
they are written and Apple doesn't bother keeping them updated. This is a
rather large problem and verification of how hard it is to keep up."
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Ike
Kapetan


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3025
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eclecticlight.co - Deprecation

"Unfortunately, ATSUI doesn't seem to be the only deprecation that's pursuing
this policy. Other unrelated API calls seem to result in similar dialogs and forced
exit, which one beta-tester has even experienced with the Finder."


https://mjtsai.com/blog/2023/06/26/ats-and-atsui-removal/

> The daemon that's showing this alert is replayd, it stores a boolean flag
for each bundle ID that it's displayed the alert for in its com.apple.replayd
preferences domain, so running defaults delete com.apple.replayd
<app_bundle_id> will make the alert pop up again.
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